Less than 3 shouldn't be ......or not ?
Read something related on another forum and wondered what the feeling is here.
I've often paddle alone at sluice when no one else available. I don't enjoy it nearly as much as with company but it has its uses.
I first paddled there over 20 years ago (yes before the addition of Europa cup rocks) and have paddled just about every class of boat in, over and through it.
i reckon at this stage I have a higher treat of injury or accident on the commute there and back.
As with all thing's adventure sport risk is off set by experience and ability and I would surely say paddling alone is not for everybody but is it acceptable ?
I have also creeked alone (though not recently) and know others who have also pursued the art of the bicycle shunt. I've had conversations resembling an AA meeting where guys reluctantly admit to haveing a secret solo run down the Glens or upper Liffey. All these people (who's anonymity will remain) are paddlers who's ability and judgment I respect.
how about this for a judment call.
A regular paddling friend of mine and I arrived at a creek (decent class 4) in normal water to find it huge. A level rarely seen. Guessing that most of the eddies would be washed through and hydraulics big we reckoned it would now be a pushing class 5 by virtue of it's continous nature.
None of our other regular paddling buddies were available to join us but others where.We both agreed it was within our abilities but where not sure about the other possible paddlers. We knew for certain it was above some of them but they seemed to be happy to join us.After some taught which included the option of just driving home. My friend and i decided it was safer for just the two of us to put on. We decided the risks we may face trying to effect rescue on this continuous river with little egress far surpassed that of not having the extra bodies along.
It turned out to be one of the most exilerating enjoyable runs of my life.
Should I have gone home ? Brought along some weeker paddlers to make up the numbers ?
Answere me this should it be a black or white rule or is there room for the grey.
Discuss 
On a river, a tree could be down or something else could have changed around the next bend.
Playing devils advocate here but .
You can legislate for this by scouting river ahead. Being part of a group that rounds a bend blind has its own probs too.
While trying to unstick your self others pile in for example hindering self rescue.
If your paddling probe in a group you more often asume greater responsibility than on your own.
You could be leading your friends to their possible end. Have you made a correct assesment of their abilities ? The river ahead ?
As every experienced paddler knows there are sections of river that are difficult to reach. Advanced roping skills are required and this take time to set up.
Is that time longer that you can hold your breath or even before you surcome to the cold ? If you did not have the possible safety net of friends would you have paddled that section in the first place ?
This discussion in reality is not aimed at beginers or even intermediates.
I whole heartedly agree with a commonsence approach and paddling to one's ability.
I'm just interested in how people feel about the concept of paddling alone.
In other adventure sports there are examples of people at the top of their game going it alone.
Mountaineering, surfing sailing to name a couple.
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
More to the point to those solo paddling are they overestimating their own ability??
also the discussion being based at only advanced boaters !
What makes someone an advanced boater?
And assuming a person considers themselves an advanced boater....Are they being honest with themselves??
I can think of plenty of paddlers who would overestimate their own ability (testosterone fueled often)
How many people could honestly say paddling alone is a great idea, its like stacking the odds against yourself in the lottery!
realistically if your not happy with the group your padlling with then dont paddle with them. find someone you are happy with.
At the end of the day we are all between swims whatever our ability if we are making informed decisions that are truely honest.....being alone is never agreat idea!
Of course if Russian roulette is something a kayaker craves.... then go ahead!
WET WEST WHITEWATER WEEKEND 10-11 NOV 2007
Good points there jackie. Assesing one's own ability in a rational way is the key IMO.
How many time's have you paddled a section of river because your peers have said its easy you'll have no prob's. You may not have been comfortable about it but now you have a supposed safety net and a modicum of peer pressure.
Would you do it if you where there on you own ? thats not just a question for advanced boaters it applies to all levels.
What make someone an advanced boater ? Not sure where that line between intermediate and advanced is myself but I'm sure the ICU know or have an assesment for it 
I can think of plenty of paddlers who would overestimate their own ability (testosterone fueled often)
Me too and have ditched many of these muppets along the way. They are a danger to them selves and others in the group.
There is no shame in walking around stuff your not comfortable with personally and if you paddle with people who believe otherwise their imaturity may get you killed.
Can anyone answere me this is there a rule that there has to be more than one instructor with 3 students an a lake trainning ?
That instructor has the responsibility for his / her own safety and that of 3 others on that lake.
That said is he / she not then capable of going out on that lake alone ?
Of course if Russian roulette is something a kayaker craves.... then go ahead!
Would it be fun with no element of danger
I would never ever advocate inexperienced paddlers paddling alone or even with each other just to make the numbers.
I met plenty of climbers who have free climbed ( without ropes ) and they confess it is the head game they do it for. The climbng community don't seem to see the solo thing with the same taboo we do ?
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
I just like to remind people that a qualification is nothing other than a piece of paper and that it won’t help you float down a river any better. So having the highest qualification possible from whatever governing body cannot make up for ability gained through paddling often. I have never had a solo mission as I wouldn't feel happy doing so. This is not for me an issue of being ballsy and tough but rather it’s not worth it should something go badly wrong.
I have run grade V with just one other person on a few occasions but it was someone I know on a section I know. I justify it by at least running it one at a time and setting up safety on known and potential dangers.
"I can think of plenty of paddlers who would overestimate their own ability (testosterone fueled often)"
Weellllllll isn't that sexist Jackie!? 
I've read a bit on people's thoughts on this before and have come to the conclusion that it's simply a risk based assessment that you can only make for yourself with as much information as possible. (and self awareness) Somewhere, you draw the line of whats acceptable to paddle alone. It could be:
Messing around in a squirt boat in flat water,
Playboating at a spot like Clifden, curragower or sluice,
Paddling a straight forward run like the Castleconnell,
Paddling the Glens,
Paddling the Gaddagh after 3 solid days of rain,
Paddling a run you read about in the guidebook while in full flood and repeats the word "pinning" several times in the description.
I know where I'd draw my own line. As regards people paddling the Glens solo, I'd be interested to know how many of those people ran constrictor and/or little eas? And if they did, were they aware of the consequences of getting these particular 2 spots wrong? (dangers on the glens of course are not restricted to these 2 - i just think they're particularly intimidating)
Tony
Sexist? I think perhaps not... Testosterone is found in both sexes. It will regulate mostly sexual functions in a human body but it will also affect the brain Ie. with regards to agression, depression etc. The more testosterone, the more agression; the more common sense is overridden by a drive to action: perhaps a direct reason for paddling rivers alone. And that counts for men and women equally.
:-) Hugs Kim (just starting Sports & Exercise Science today: I'll be diving into this one!!!)
Paddling a run you read about in the guidebook while in full flood and repeats the word "pinning" several times in the description. Nice one canned very funny.
As a Dad of four my solo paddling is limited to line 2.
Playboating at a spot like Clifden, curragower or sluice, with the odd session on my board or boat in surf.
Abilities aside it just come down to acceptable risk.
I'm personnally comfortable with this and have assessed the risks.
With regard to the other question about the glens the answere is yes and yes.
I don't really want to get into nitty gritty of particular spots but just to clarify how I would do general risk assessment of a feature. Lets take the constriction on Glens medium hight for example. Large eddie before side winder with easy access for inspection of run and set up of rescue points. Line over side winder fairly clear with good rolling time before constriction. A swim at this point can be self rescued with or with out boat before constriction. A swim through constriction not nice but achieved by swimming into line and balling up followed by boat recovery and self rescue in the following pool. Line into constriction. Move river right and paddle for the gap. Potiential pin hazard for unoccupied boats or any paddler who broaches before entry to gap.Easy access for rescue, washing to pool for swimmers and boat recovery. Personally I have a love hate relationship with throw ropes. They are a major help and a major hazard all rolled up in a bag so you'll have to forgive me when i mention the words self rescue a lot.I don't like them being thrown at me unless i ask for it but i carry two go figure.Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
Bren: "Lets take the constriction on Glens medium hight for example. Large eddie before side winder with easy access for inspection of run and set up of rescue points."
I dunno how but one of us is misinterpreting. My question was about soloing something like constrictor. In which case, rescue points become irrelevant surely?
In addition: it's possible to broach half way through constrictor as the sides are undercut also. At this stage I'm sure plenty of readers have heard of a few pretty big scares here....
If someone is there with a rope I wouldn't regard that as solo....
Sorry Canned rambled a bit on that one. Omit anything that referes to rescue points. The exercise was realy to point out the positive aspects of that stretch and de mystify it a bit.
Good eddie service and plenty of opportunities to self rescue.
There's all sorts of senario's for stuff to go wrong there and to solo it you would have to seriously look at you own odds of completion.
Personally i regularly lead it without rescue set but still have the backup of the group behind me. I have never solo'd it but feel it is within range for me if I was so inclined.
. All this said I'm currently laid up with a hurt shoulder because i failed to mountain bike within my limits 
Just a sub note. Its worth considering if there will be any random passers by. A solo paddler in trouble could draw them into a situation they have no experience off.
I think the mood on this one is mixed and will prob stay that way.
It reminds me of one time at sluice whilst on my own playboating a group of paddlers arrived above the weir.
The leader paddled down capsized and swam. i went to his assistance. To my horror the rest of the group (3 teenage girls) came down swimming at the same time.
After a lot of towing and boat recovery i was thanked but one of the 3 girls said to me in a serious tone that less than 3 shouldn't be.
Well that was me told and off towards Lucan weir they went.
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
Crerar! Doing solo runs, there's someone overestimating his own ability, the boy would have trouble in a puddle.
HA HA, bring it on.
Good topic tho, it seems more and more people are going solo these days. It is a nice thing to do if no-one else is paddling, but aside from the inherent dangers of what if an accident happens, ain't it more banter to paddle with others also.
And another question, maybe paddlin solo can also be safer, i for one know i'd prefer to paddle by myself than with a bunch of gumbies who seem to draw accidents upon themselves, and there is a large number of them out there.
It'll prob happen more often now too that waterproof MP3 cases are about. Maybe i'll get one of them and give the gaddagh a run. What music, pink floyd to keep me chilled and my thoughts on the game, or some norwegian black metal to get the adrenaline flowing so i attack the beasht!
Oh contrare ! I know Dave has done solo runs to places no self respecting man would go.
Just think dodgy outfits or any cloths at all. The boy just seem to want to show off that ladyshaved body of his.
Yes he's one of them lads. You know the one's. Your out at a club the night going well but not particularly memorable and over he'll lean and quietly say
" Get your coats lads we're about to be thrown out "
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
There is a big difference between 'park and play' and river running. I often paddle solo at Curragower or Clifden. When you're on the bank you can see all the hazards before you get on the water. Also, while swims could be long you can see where you are going.
On a river, a tree could be down or something else could have changed around the next bend.
Weaker paddlers can still rescue paddles, go for help and might be very good at first-aid. Generally bring another paddler, unless they are going to be causing the problem.
P